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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:06 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:56 am 
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Ok, I don't want to change the strategy at all here. People understand the fight and its mechanics at this point.

Next time we do this can we set up groups? It's great for helping us make sure there is an even spread of people around the room, instead of trusting everyone to spread enough. It's great for helping people know what part of the room they should attempt to drop rots, instead of just hoping you're not going to turn and run into 5 people that "spread" near you.

-Yes, breaths are going to force people to adjust a bit, but that's literally not an issue. Be smart, adjust don't stand in stuff, stay as close to your area as you can. It's honestly really really good if breaths are going over areas with dense rot patches. Just makes it so that they become more dense.
-Yes, ranged may still need to adjust when they see a melee running out or a healer. It's great and all you're near a wall for your dps and lower movement, but sometimes you're still going to have to move. (I have suggestions here...but I don't want to changed anything else, just literally lets set up groups.)
-No, you don't HAVE to go to the safe zone. Be aware of the room, if you see a spot that you can stand in that isn't in the safe zone that's wonderful! It keeps you away from other people and dense bug spawns.
-PLEASE, drop rots densely. Risk taking 1 extra stack of infestation when you have rot, but get it close to other ones. Any space that is conserved makes phase 2 that much simple and the fight that much shorter.
-PLEASE, do NOT run in during MC if you are not melee or getting MC'd, you're just a potential danger to the whole group. Don't use long duration hard stuns, most of our MC's are broken out in less than 3 seconds. NO, it does not stun you when you get out of it, if you're human or gnome or have some type of racial or ability that clears stuns/slows. Use it.

As a personal note try to stay off my warlock portal :p It's not a good rot drop point xD It's literally my only way to move faster than base run speed, which can really mess me up if I get an awkwardly timed 10th stack xD

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Example from last night potential set-up
Wednesday Group -
Tanks : Chim, Diamond
Heals : Arcy, Bubble, Mely, Pistol
Melee DPS : Angry, Card, Heart, Nasaug, Shadowcat, Stundros
Ranged DPS : Berrorhunt, Bonevader, Brociliande, Leifvar, Seventhdwarf, Turpitude, Xaenir, Zåtanna

GROUP 1 : Zone Left - Chim, Arcy, Xaenir, Angry, Card
GROUP 2 : Zone Right - Diamond, Bubble, Berror, Heart, Nasaug
GROUP 3 : Zone Left Back - Mely, Shadowcat, Bonevader, Broc, Leif
GROUP 4 : Zone Right Back - Pistol, Stundros, Seventh, Turp, Zåtanna


I just set this up going by Alpha order, if there's another ranged with mobility issues or high survival they could have Berror's spot in group 2.
This guarantees you have a healer standing near each area, healers main priority is their groups. I trust them not to stupid though, still heal tanks and help with other groups no matter what group you're in :p
This also makes sure there's an even split of people around the room. Should not be difficult to spread out. (2 healers, 3 melee, 4 ranged)

Literally just do the exact same strat we have been, but now we know things are balanced, each attempt will have the same people standing by the same people so you can figure things out in your group if something is going wrong.


As I said and people probably have read, I have a ton of suggestions and potential things that could be done, but I think we know the fight well enough that we can kill it. I'd just love to see us take advantage of an organizational feature that is part of the game, it's a tool we're ignoring and could help give us those last few % we need. Afterward, perhaps we can look into using other tricks or methods to put the fight into farm status.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Woo, more stuff just because it may help someone in understanding something or giving an idea.

Breaths every 40seconds
Volatile every 24 seconds
3 Rot casts between each breaths - number of rots going out starts at 3, and goes up by 1 each time she sleeps.

2 Breaths per phase 1 - 5-7 pools drop, is about 1/4 of the room.
Tank Volatile: 1 volatile before first breath, 2 before second. Guaranteed 3 stacks per P1. 5-6 Rots.
Rots : Phase 1.1 - 9 Rots, Breath (5-7), 9 Rots, Breath (5-7), 15-18 Tank Rots.
Phase 1.2 - 12 Rots, Breath (5-7), 12 Rots, Breath (5-7), 15-18 Tank Rots.
Phase 1.3 - 15 Rots, Breath (5-7), 15 Rots, Breath (5-7), 15-18 Tank Rots.
She enrages after 3rd sleep.

We have two moonkins, drop Solar Beam on the Mind Controlled group, Mind Control is every 40seconds, so you'll need to alternate beams best you can. If there's a solar beam down, we literally need 0 stuns going out.

We have multiple strong cooldowns that can be used to effectively deal with MCs :
Sindragosa's Fury - 5min c/d large damage useful if we get a big MC group.
Solar Beam - 1min c/d interupt that creates a silence zone for 8 seconds around the target. EXTREMELY USEFUL - If possible should be alternated if when we have 2 moonkin.
Incapacitating Roar - 30sec c/d it's not really super great just a 3second disorient that will break on damage, but still if used a second after MC it'll stop any casts that started and they'll have to start again.
Phantom Singularity - 1min c/d large AoE damage burst, I could potentially take this if we need more MC help. It'll severely impact my Nythendra damage though.

If anyone else has any strong burst AoE or interupting abilities please share! I don't know every class in Legion yet. Mostly I'd just like us to stop using stuns for the interupt, it has multiple times led to catastrophic results.


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File comment: Nyth room, ignoring safe zones because omgosh pictures take long enough to draw and it shows off point of trying to stack rots and general group placement.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:16 pm 
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Revary wrote:
If anyone else has any strong burst AoE or interupting abilities please share! I don't know every class in Legion yet. Mostly I'd just like us to stop using stuns for the interupt, it has multiple times led to catastrophic results.

with card's 1min cd on eye beam, and my 45s cooldown on odyn's fury, and both of us having aoe stuns with shortish cds, as long as one of us is up with the ability off cooldown, the MCs shouldn't be a huge issue(unless there's a massive group), the problems were occurring when we both got mc'd or one of us died. (and heart's syndragosa was on cd).
we're obviously not soloing the mc's down, but it is a hugely significant chunk.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:15 am 
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Oh, and just so people can understand why I'm looking for some sort of organization. The attached picture is pretty much how we spread on a lot of attempts.

It's understandable, and people are for the most part keeping spread but still so close that it's going to be hard to move with rot. With the current strat, that's going to be a huge hinderance. Either we need to use our room better, or find strats that are more intensive on clearing stacks with forced MCs (This requires another organization and reaction time level above and beyond what we're doing...so though it works well, not practical for us at this time.)


Also just fyi - min dps required to hit enrage is 191k dps, I got this number using a raid group with 14 dps, 4 heals, 2 tanks with tanks contributing 100k dps each, and heals 0. So exact numbers will vary...but pretty much if you're not hitting 200k dps raise awareness and find ways to reduce your downtime.
This is ~2.88 million rdps for any who want to look at logs to see how we were doing.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:28 am 
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Oh hey, I'm back again.

So our main issue, appears to happen sometime during second awake phase we get a really bad MC, 10+ people. We survive most of the time but it's messy, get people clumped, potentially rot bombs us and a few casts may get off in there, and we almost always end up with 1-3 dead people. Easy fix to this is forcing MCs on the first two breaths in first phase. The first 80 seconds of the fight are the most control we have during the entire encounter. We are very rarely clearing any stacks during the first breath.

Time progress and raid stacks for explanation :
Fight starts - Awake for 80 seconds (Phase 1.1)
3 rots go out - 3 people have 5 stacks guaranteed. +1 if they don't move quick after drop.
24 seconds in Volatile - Entire raid gets 1 stack.
3 Rots go out - 3 people with 5 stacks guaranteed. +1 if they don't move quick after drop.
3 Rots go out - 3 people with 5 stacks guaranteed. +1 if they don't move quick after drop.
40 seconds First Breath
MC - At this point if everyone is playing well and dodging stuff only people who have gotten rot twice will be MC'd. We have anywhere 3-9 people who have 6+ stacks. We need to clear at least 5 of them, maybe more, healers have mana and no one should be suffering at this point, hero may still even be up.
3 Rots go out - 3 people with 5 stacks guaranteed. +1 if they don't move quick after drop.
48 seconds in Volatile - Entire raid gets 1 stack. (whole raid 2 stacks guarantee)
3 Rots go out - 3 people with 5 stacks guaranteed. +1 if they don't move quick after drop.
3 Rots go out - 3 people with 5 stacks guaranteed. +1 if they don't move quick after drop.
72 seconds in Volatile - Entire raid gets 1 stack. (whole raid 3 stacks guarantee)
80 seconds Breath
MC - At this point anyone who hasn't been cleared and has gotten 1 rot at any point, will have 8 stacks. Unless they dodge perfectly and got 0 other stacks during the encounter they will be MC'd during the next breath as we have 1 more volatile before then. (Anywhere from 3 to 18 people...if you got unlucky and no rot every hit same target twice which is unlikely)
Sleep for 80 seconds (Phase 2.1)
Awake for 80 seconds (Phase 1.2)
4 rots go out - 4 people have 5 stacks guaranteed. +1 if they don't move quick after drop.
24 seconds in Volatile - Entire raid gets 1 stack. (whole raid 4 stacks guarantee)
4 Rots go out - 4 people with 5 stacks guaranteed. +1 if they don't move quick after drop.
4 Rots go out - 4 people with 5 stacks guaranteed. +1 if they don't move quick after drop.
40 seconds First Breath
MC - This is where things start to fall apart on most of our attempts, even when we survive this we almost always have a few casts go off, some deaths, and healers start to fall behind. Loss of people means less targets for rots and less people to break MCs, healers playing catch-up means they're going to start hurting on mana and globals to keep people up.

Ok, stopping with the list and explaining.
Even if all 3 rot casts in P1.2 hit the same 4 people each time, that give you 4 MCs after the breath. The next breath though literally anyone hit by rot that hasn't been cleared is a guarantee MC because we'll have had 2 more volatile and the the raid wide stack count will be 5. We can't sit back and waste MC phases, these phases are cruicial in making it through the fight, but this is what we're doing during P1.1 causing the situation to snowball out of control once we get later into the fight.

We can easily break 5-7 out of an MC. Can safely break a bigger group 8-10 before the sleep phase as no rots go out after that breath. More MC we can comfortably use to clear stack in P1.1 then the smoother phase 2 should go. If we're not perfect in phase 2, things shouldn't start the downward spiral until P3, and we should pretty much have the fight by then even if we lose some people. The big thing for us is keeping the fight clean until the second sleep.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:48 pm 
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I'm not sure yet what's up with vent. Make sure you've downloaded discord before the raid tonight (just in case).

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:21 pm 
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Sorry the holidays have me pulled like crazy, on top of other stuffs. Sorry about not making it. On the plus side I've gotten some real life [gasp] stuff accomplished.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:44 am 
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Good run last night. I was happy to get a full Heroic clear and Mythic Nythendra kill completed in 3 hours. To move forward we'll need everyone to push themselves and make sure they come fully prepared for an evening of Mythic progression. That start with (As usual) a look at last night's logs to try to sort out how you can be pushing yourself harder. The logs are at: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XC13jagNG2DTWdkn#type=damage-done&boss=-2

Focus heavily on your ilvl performance and, if it's low, try to look through logs from other players of your spec and class to figure out what you're doing differently. This is a great way to make sure you're focusing on the right rotation, gear, and mechanics to push it to the limit and will be critical going forward. I also recommend simming yourself to make sure that you are getting the most out of YOUR current gear. Play around with different talents and with different priorities until you find the best way to contribute to the group. It doesn't take long and can be an excellent starting point for in-game playtesting. Once you've reviewed logs and simmed yourself into the best possible configuration, do a few Mythic+ groups or maybe an LFR to make sure that you are comfortable with the changes.

Ok now for the important part: Our progression work tonight will be on:



We will use the same strategy from last week (and last night)

and then we'll head to:



Have plenty of runes & DPS Pots and be ready for both encounters!

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:44 am 
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Good run last night. I was happy to get a full Heroic clear and Mythic Nythendra kill completed in 3 hours. To move forward we'll need everyone to push themselves and make sure they come fully prepared for an evening of Mythic progression. That start with (As usual) a look at last night's logs to try to sort out how you can be pushing yourself harder. The logs are at: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XC13jagNG2DTWdkn#type=damage-done&boss=-2

Focus heavily on your ilvl performance and, if it's low, try to look through logs from other players of your spec and class to figure out what you're doing differently. This is a great way to make sure you're focusing on the right rotation, gear, and mechanics to push it to the limit and will be critical going forward. I also recommend simming yourself to make sure that you are getting the most out of YOUR current gear. Play around with different talents and with different priorities until you find the best way to contribute to the group. It doesn't take long and can be an excellent starting point for in-game playtesting. Once you've reviewed logs and simmed yourself into the best possible configuration, do a few Mythic+ groups or maybe an LFR to make sure that you are comfortable with the changes.

Ok now for the important part: Our progression work tonight will be on:



We will use the same strategy from last week (and last night)

and then we'll head to:



Have plenty of runes & DPS Pots and be ready for both encounters!

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"The problems that exist in the world today cannot be solved by the level of thinking that created them." - Albert Einstein

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:44 am 
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Good run last night. I was happy to get a full Heroic clear and Mythic Nythendra kill completed in 3 hours. To move forward we'll need everyone to push themselves and make sure they come fully prepared for an evening of Mythic progression. That start with (As usual) a look at last night's logs to try to sort out how you can be pushing yourself harder. The logs are at: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XC13jagNG2DTWdkn#type=damage-done&boss=-2

Focus heavily on your ilvl performance and, if it's low, try to look through logs from other players of your spec and class to figure out what you're doing differently. This is a great way to make sure you're focusing on the right rotation, gear, and mechanics to push it to the limit and will be critical going forward. I also recommend simming yourself to make sure that you are getting the most out of YOUR current gear. Play around with different talents and with different priorities until you find the best way to contribute to the group. It doesn't take long and can be an excellent starting point for in-game playtesting. Once you've reviewed logs and simmed yourself into the best possible configuration, do a few Mythic+ groups or maybe an LFR to make sure that you are comfortable with the changes.

Ok now for the important part: Our progression work tonight will be on:



We will use the same strategy from last week (and last night)

and then we'll head to:



Have plenty of runes & DPS Pots and be ready for both encounters!

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"The problems that exist in the world today cannot be solved by the level of thinking that created them." - Albert Einstein

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:21 am 
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Ursoc is simple enough, other than just trying to avoid early tank deaths, we have the strategy down.

On our best attempt 6% we're short on dps by about 250k. Which is hard to see with in-game meters as damage is being inflated by the Images.
To get Ursoc down in 5min requires raid dps of 4,333,333 - on our BEST attempt we were at 4,084,000.

Here's a log from best attempt of the night - Filtered to only show Ursoc damage and is cut off after 3 deaths since things just go to hell after that.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/AG ... 1&cutoff=3


There's definitely things a lot of people could do to improve their dps. I don't know everyones classes so my only advice is read up on things and run sims on your character to figure out your best upgrades, if you want more information on how to do this, I'm happy to help. We need to make up 250k dps, which if we want to include everyone is only 12,500 dps per person (though of course most falls on dps and a bit on tanks).

I'll keep digging through logs for a bit, and update with anything else I notice, but overall good job guys :) We sustained all Mythic progress this week and got some good experience.


Updates :
1. Prepotting - I know it's not the most fun but we need every bit of dps we can get. Figure out optimal pots and who can make them, should prepot every attempt. For Ursoc this includes tanks and healers, get every point of damage you can ;)
2. We mostly did this last night, but should definately be doing it next week also - Vantus Runes : 2.5% damage doesn't seem huge but we need everything we can get, if you can help out our Incriptionists with materials please do so.
3. 375 food, I know I know, 75 stats doesn't seem like much but again anything helps. For Mastery food Rev has 3 star for the 375 recipe. I'm sure others have ranks for the other food, lets figure out who has what so everyone can get what they need.
4. Nightmare Images - Spawn every 40seconds, 33million HP, hit for about 250-280k. Could probably optimize killing these a bit better, 33million isn't much for us and we're killing these in about 20seconds. Totally not sure but maybe some people are sacrificing more dps than they need to by switching to these, I know not everyone is amazing at cleave damage. Just something to keep in mind, it may be of use.
5. OPTIMIZE TALENTS - we have a warlock and we have incriptionists. If you can't do trash and Ursoc with same talents then we can figure it out, but there's definitely some questionable talent choices being taken for a largely single target fight (Some talents choices are just questionable whatever you're doing.) Please read up, find someone else in your class to talk to, or even ask me and I'll help you figure it out.
6. Suggestion - Go to Warcraftlogs, look up the top ranked damage for your class and item level, pick someone with similiar gear (trinkets/legendaries) to yours and compare their logs to yours. Are they utilizing a cooldown better? Are they taking advantage of a buff you aren't? What talents did they choose differently? Again, I'm happy to help with analysis if anyone needs it!
EXAMPLE : https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/co ... amage-done
This is a comparison with a guild that is about 3 ilvls higher than us and killed boss just past enrage, they are also utilizing same tank set-up and only difference in healing is a druid instead of the second shammy. This is basically the kind of log you'll need to find but with someone that is close to the same gear as you.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:26 am 
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Last day of class tonight, may not be on until 10-15min after raid start time. Sorry guys you may have to walk! ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:10 pm 
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Unless I suddenly get way more fluent in Japanese than I currently am, I'm most likely not going to make it tonight. My teacher decided to move our final up from next week to tomorrow and only told us yesterday. So I'll probably be rocking in a corner somewhere, muttering mispronounced Japanese words while staring at badly drawn kanji notecards, right about raid time. I wish you all the best. (#cX going back to school.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:32 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:17 am 
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Sorry about last night everyone :( My internet decided to go down at the worst time possible...(it's still down, just posting this from work. T_T)

Super disappointed that I didn't get to try out live logging a raid last night! ;(

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